| EIZO Monitor DICOM Mode |
Apr 27, 2017 10:25 PM
by Panos Dadamis
by Panos Dadamis
Hello,
Many EIZO monitors have a special picture mode for viewing DICOM images. A special tone response curve, the DICOM Grayscale Standard Display Function, is applied which is different to the default sRGB/2.2 gamma curve that most PC monitors use. Also, the white point color temperature is shifted to 7500 and brightness is locked at a higher value on purpose.
Does Radiant DICOM Viewer apply any form of gamma correction to the DICOM images that could conflict with the DICOM mode on such displays? Are there any suggested settings?
Thanks in advance!
Many EIZO monitors have a special picture mode for viewing DICOM images. A special tone response curve, the DICOM Grayscale Standard Display Function, is applied which is different to the default sRGB/2.2 gamma curve that most PC monitors use. Also, the white point color temperature is shifted to 7500 and brightness is locked at a higher value on purpose.
Does Radiant DICOM Viewer apply any form of gamma correction to the DICOM images that could conflict with the DICOM mode on such displays? Are there any suggested settings?
Thanks in advance!
May 3, 2017 07:50 PM
by
by
Hi,
RadiAnt does not apply any gamma correction to the images it displays. Only default LUTs are used.
Kind regards,
Maciej
RadiAnt does not apply any gamma correction to the images it displays. Only default LUTs are used.
Kind regards,
Maciej
May 8, 2017 07:06 AM
by Tommy
by Tommy
we have an EIZO monitor too in the mammography reading room.
the radiologists who work there said they noticed a diffent grayscale color display comparing the same images loaded in RadiAnt and in the syngoPlaza Siemens software on the same console and the same monitor.
do you think this could be due to differences in LUT applied by the syngoPlaza software?
the radiologists who work there said they noticed a diffent grayscale color display comparing the same images loaded in RadiAnt and in the syngoPlaza Siemens software on the same console and the same monitor.
do you think this could be due to differences in LUT applied by the syngoPlaza software?
May 9, 2017 02:35 PM
by
by
Tommy,
There could be several reasons for it: Siemens software may output 10-bit grayscale images (RadiAnt only produces 8-bit output), a presentation states may be present for those MG images (there is no support for PS in RadiAnt), or there is some gamma correction applied in syngoPlaza.
There could be several reasons for it: Siemens software may output 10-bit grayscale images (RadiAnt only produces 8-bit output), a presentation states may be present for those MG images (there is no support for PS in RadiAnt), or there is some gamma correction applied in syngoPlaza.
May 10, 2017 05:14 AM
by Tommy
by Tommy
interesting. I'll ping Siemens to check the 10-bit thing.
what's the benefit of a 10-bit display vs. an 8-bit display?
regarding the "presentation states" what is it exactly?
it's the same thing of LUT of something different?
what's the benefit of a 10-bit display vs. an 8-bit display?
regarding the "presentation states" what is it exactly?
it's the same thing of LUT of something different?
May 10, 2017 07:57 PM
by
by
With 10 bits you get 1024 shades of gray, whereas 8 bits gives you 256 gray levels.
"A Presentation State is an independent DICOM SOP Instance that contains information on how a particular image should be displayed. The Presentation State may contain label information(types of Label and Positions), windowing values, zoom value, scrolling (panning) values, rotations or any other visual display element that is defined within the DICOM standard."
"A Presentation State is an independent DICOM SOP Instance that contains information on how a particular image should be displayed. The Presentation State may contain label information(types of Label and Positions), windowing values, zoom value, scrolling (panning) values, rotations or any other visual display element that is defined within the DICOM standard."
May 10, 2017 08:31 PM
by aaaaaaaaa
by aaaaaaaaa
I think the human eye can only see 30 - 40 shades of grey.. so 6 bits would actually be more than enough.. what is the advantage of the 10 bit coding?
May 11, 2017 09:47 AM
by
by
"Human observers are able to discriminate between 700 and 900 simultaneous shades of gray for the available luminance range of current medical displays and in optimal conditions. Therefore, it has no use to simultaneously display more than 10 bits of gray (1,024 gray shades) because this already exceeds the capabilities of the human visual system. To be able to perceive these 900 simultaneous shades of gray, calibration of medical display systems has shown to be extremely important. Accurate calibration requires approximately 11 bits of inherent display grayscale resolution."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043920/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043920/
May 13, 2017 07:41 AM
by Tommy
by Tommy
interesting.
which is the correct standard to display medical images, 8-bit or 10-bit?
is there any plan to allow RadiAnt to display 10-bit images?
why 8-bit output has been choosen?
which is the correct standard to display medical images, 8-bit or 10-bit?
is there any plan to allow RadiAnt to display 10-bit images?
why 8-bit output has been choosen?
May 13, 2017 09:05 AM
by
by
Usually in diagnostic software 10-bit is required for reporting digital radiography and mammography. 8-bit is sufficient for other modalities.
Displaying 10-bits requires special monitors, special graphic cards, and software specifically designed to handle 10 bits per color channel.
My safe bet is that less than 0.01% of RadiAnt users own such hardware. So currently it doesn't make economic sense to implement it, when there's lots of features that majority of our users crave for waiting to be implemented.
Displaying 10-bits requires special monitors, special graphic cards, and software specifically designed to handle 10 bits per color channel.
My safe bet is that less than 0.01% of RadiAnt users own such hardware. So currently it doesn't make economic sense to implement it, when there's lots of features that majority of our users crave for waiting to be implemented.
May 14, 2017 07:40 AM
by Tommy
by Tommy
ok, thanks for claryfing.
Jun 23, 2017 05:06 PM
by Guest
by Guest
Please... implement 10-bit output!!!
Jun 24, 2017 06:51 AM
by Tommy
by Tommy
as the developers said, actually this 10-bit enhancement is not at the top of priority list for new features. maybe in the future...
Nov 6, 2017 11:27 PM
by Carlo
by Carlo
Most modern graphics cards, as well as monitors, now implement 10bit.
Please, implement the 10bit output!
Thanks
Please, implement the 10bit output!
Thanks
Nov 10, 2017 09:00 AM
by
by
Carlo, for most use cases of RadiAnt, 8-bit output is sufficient.
We will consider adding 10-bit in the future.
We will consider adding 10-bit in the future.
Dec 21, 2018 09:19 PM
by Perebre MD
by Perebre MD
It's been almost a year since you considered adding 10-bit support in the future. HDR Monitors suporting 10 bit are still expensive but affordable. Hope you think about that again. :)
Jan 10, 2019 09:31 PM
by
by
10-bit are not planned in the near future, I'm afraid.
Jul 4, 2019 01:34 PM
by Jacek
by Jacek
We use radiation for diagnostic and we save results in DICOM.
For diagnostic we have to use 10 bit grayscale.
8 bit DICOM viewer doesn't make any sense!!!
For diagnostic we have to use 10 bit grayscale.
8 bit DICOM viewer doesn't make any sense!!!
Jul 4, 2019 08:06 PM
by
by
First of all, for diagnostic use in radiology you need software certified as a medical product. I'll repeat: for most use cases of RadiAnt, 8-bit output is sufficient. Adding 10-bit support would require significant changes in RadiAnt, while only small percentage of users would appreciate this feature.
Oct 19, 2020 04:32 PM
by Daco
by Daco
Hi! Thanks to the radiant team for the amazing work you've done.
I would also appreciate very much if 10bit support is one of the next developments. As far as I'm concerned I use radiant as my main diagnostic workstation and will continue to do it. Also I'm sure a lot of radiologist also use it for medical purposes so 10 bit support will be a great improvement to the already complete software that radiant provides.
Greetings from Colombia and keep doing that amazing work.
I would also appreciate very much if 10bit support is one of the next developments. As far as I'm concerned I use radiant as my main diagnostic workstation and will continue to do it. Also I'm sure a lot of radiologist also use it for medical purposes so 10 bit support will be a great improvement to the already complete software that radiant provides.
Greetings from Colombia and keep doing that amazing work.
Oct 21, 2020 02:07 PM
by
by
10-bit certainly won't be the next developed feature but we might add it at some point. Also, remember that RadiAnt is not a certified medical product, so make sure you are familiar with the local legal regulations concerning your use case.
Nov 27, 2020 08:09 PM
by Seraj
by Seraj
i suggest adding 10-bit support for advance users, you can also charge extra for it, i would certainly pay the extra fee to be able to benefit from my expensive monitor.